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Domestic Popularity and Degrees of Authoritarianism
#1
So I was thinking about DP today, specifically in terms of how the system has traditionally worked and how it may be problematical in that it only allows for an authoritarian dynamics. Bear with me here.

DP in SWD essentially acts as a measure of how much your people support your government. The system assumes that your government is the subject and the people an object which reacts to it.

However, in government models where the people themselves have significant power in terms of policy-making or even administration, the dynamic from this lense does not make sense. Because, essentially what you would have is DP being a measure of how much the people like themselves, which doesn't make sense.

As a possible alternative, could you also look at DP as a measure of how popular implemention of the people's desire is, or does the DP system itself automatically assume a fundamental distinction between "people" and "government?"
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#2
I am assuming you are referring to more democratic governments? In that essence, DP would still be very similar in that you can have a deeply unpopular democratic government. You are assuming that whom people elect to represent them actually do so, which in a super majority of cases involving democracies they do not.
Dooku:  Oh my naive young Jedi, you must be overly optimistic if you think these Weequayans plan to let you leave this planet.
Anakin: They're planet hopping thieves looking for a quick score, they have no interest in picking a fight with Jedi.
Dooku: They are devious and deceitful, and most importantly, stupid. 
Obi-Wan: It's no wonder you get along with them so well Dooku, you have so much in common.
Dooku: You under-estimate them at your own peril...Kenobi...
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#3
I am referring to more direct democratic governments or even more confederated systems of governance where the people either have direct policy-making power or appoint recallable delegates to communicate their wishes in larger confederal structure (as opposed to "representatives," which are not obligated to abide by the decision of a citizens decision-making body). The system I am thinking of specifically is libertarian municipalism, but others could apply.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out if it is even possible to play this kind of entity in this game, or if the DP mechanic sort of precludes it. Because in these systems, the people formulate the policy themselves in assemblies of varying scope. It is then the responsibility of the government to implement the policy and administrate. And if the people formulate a policy, which then becomes unpopular, they would simply repeal it or modify it. The only thing that could be more or less popular would be the administrative system's implementation, which would be subject to readjustment by the people as well. So DP would become a sort of moot point.
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#4
DP is a common-use variable, which represents the Domestic Popularity of the government.

You can have unhappy people with a stable government. This is currently defined through an arbitrary definition of government in your planet.

DP represents how happy your people are, but you don't have to keep your people happy to stay in power.

EDIT: the basis of this argument is that 'we have DP, we must find a way to use it', not a statement that 'this is how DP works because it SHOULD be this way'.
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#5
Right, but what I'm saying is that in systems where the population itself makes the policies, the DP mechanic doesn't make sense, because the people would just change the policy if it's unpopular. 

So if a planet had such a governing system, would/could DP come to represent something else, such as the popularity of administrative implementation of the policy, but not the popularity of the system per se?

Or, does the DP system enforce a strict dichotomy between the population and policy-making governments, thereby making the playing of planets with popular policy-making impossible?
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#6
(08-31-2018, 02:37 AM)IcedSquirrel Wrote: I am referring to more direct democratic governments or even more confederated systems of governance where the people either have direct policy-making power or appoint recallable delegates to communicate their wishes in larger confederal structure (as opposed to "representatives," which are not obligated to abide by the decision of a citizens decision-making body). The system I am thinking of specifically is libertarian municipalism, but others could apply.

Basically, I'm trying to figure out if it is even possible to play this kind of entity in this game, or if the DP mechanic sort of precludes it. Because in these systems, the people formulate the policy themselves in assemblies of varying scope. It is then the responsibility of the government to implement the policy and administrate. And if the people formulate a policy, which then becomes unpopular, they would simply repeal it or modify it. The only thing that could be more or less popular would be the administrative system's implementation, which would be subject to readjustment by the people as well. So DP would become a sort of moot point.

I have played a Syndicalist government in the past, and DP did not preclude me from doing so.

Really no matter what kind of government you have there is a dichotomy between the state apparatus and the populous, and some sort of Social Contract would exist.  Unless you want to do some kind of extreme democracy like on that one Orville episode.

However, IG mechanics wise, DP would not necessarily interfere with what you are stating you wish to accomplish.  What would interfere with what you propose is the general representation of the player IG.  You are the government, and the Admin is "the people".  This is not only a control device for people who go batshit crazy, but also adds a layer of challenge to the player to keep themselves in line.  Remove that barrier and one can simply say "hey my people want it because I am the people and I say so", and that we cannot have IG terms.  With new upcoming changes to our game system, that part is going to be reinforced instead of weakened.
Dooku:  Oh my naive young Jedi, you must be overly optimistic if you think these Weequayans plan to let you leave this planet.
Anakin: They're planet hopping thieves looking for a quick score, they have no interest in picking a fight with Jedi.
Dooku: They are devious and deceitful, and most importantly, stupid. 
Obi-Wan: It's no wonder you get along with them so well Dooku, you have so much in common.
Dooku: You under-estimate them at your own peril...Kenobi...
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#7
Yes, I think that's getting more to my concern WD, thanks. 

So that being said, since the player is the government, would current game mechanics where the av represents the people require the player who played such a popular government to submit actions to get the will of the people policy wise? That also seems like it wouldn't work cause the avs would then basically be playing your planet lol.

Or, it sounds like the planetsim model may simply preclude playing such a government, for precisely the reasons you point out. That or another mechanic for checking players by the avs would need to exist
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#8
You can survey your planet if you want to. It's not the most efficient way to use actions, but yeah, you'll get an arbitrary judgement from an Av as to what they think, in timeframe they process your action, would be the case.

EDIT: Having read the government you seem to be referring to - if you mean it literally, then your DP would be dependent on the people's satisfaction with the system while it is in place. If the direct democracy approach isn't giving them what they want, their disillusionment would grow, and the DP would take a hit.

I'm trying very hard not to propose a new system here, but again would like to state - I am defending the existing system as it stands, not stating that this is the correct way to represent the info involved.
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#9
This account of how the Rojavan Kurds have organized gives a decent, simple explanation of the system I am thinking of the most.

https://www.globalrights.info/2018/08/my...in-rojava/

I suppose surveying the public as a means of policy making is possible, but I wouldn't want it to increase the workload of avs too terribly much.
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#10
Well you would action what policy changes you actually want to accomplish, and the staff would process it whether or not there would be a general approval. A lot of that is up to the staff interpretation of the situation on your planet, taking into account previous actions.
Dooku:  Oh my naive young Jedi, you must be overly optimistic if you think these Weequayans plan to let you leave this planet.
Anakin: They're planet hopping thieves looking for a quick score, they have no interest in picking a fight with Jedi.
Dooku: They are devious and deceitful, and most importantly, stupid. 
Obi-Wan: It's no wonder you get along with them so well Dooku, you have so much in common.
Dooku: You under-estimate them at your own peril...Kenobi...
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